La France Acurate Build

[Chuck]

This is my first time on this forum and I am very impressed.  There were many pictures posted of steamers that I would have not seen if not for this forum.  Thanks to all the posters.

The reason I joined is because I need your help.  I build 1/8 scale horse drawn vehicles from scratch and at this time I am refurbishing one and building three La France horse drawn Steam pumpers.  One of them is for myself. Attached is a picture of the one I am refurbishing.   To my understanding it is a 1887 La France and my best guess is that it modeled after one somewhere in Califorinia although this may be wrong.  I have been trying to find where the original is and if any pictures exist of the full sized one.  After countless hours searching the internet, this forum and books I have came up empty handed.  A book worth pointing out that everyone should have in their library is " Those Magnificent Old Steam Fire Engines" by W. Fred Conway.  Anyways...if you would notice in the picture it has a huge bell behind the seat.  Is this correct?  If you like I can upload a couple more pictures.  It is important to me that I build the steamer as accurate as possible to the orginal.  Your help would be much appreciated.

[STILL INTERESTED]

Just a quick note:  Thanks for joining this forum.  The bell you were talking about behind the seat, with the eagle on top is actually a pressure dome.  Steamers used a dual piston system for pumping water.  on the downward stroke of one of the pistons a vacuum was created which actually pulled water into the piston, called drafting.  On the upstroke the water was pushed out of the piston under pressure.  With out the pressure dome what would come out of the hose would be spurts of water.  By forcing the water into the pressure dome, full of air, the water would actually pressurize the air inside the dome (which would be acting as what hydraulic engineers today would call a hydraulic accumulator)  The result would be a steady constant stream of water out of the hose nozzle.  You will even see pressure domes on front mounted or midship mounted piston pump trucks such as Ahrens-Fox, or Howe.  Piston pumps were self priming positive displacement pumps.  Fire trucks today use a variable displacement centrifugal pump.  Hope this helps clear up what you were asking about the Bell.   Fire Pump 101

[Chuck]

Still Interested...The information on the air chamber will come in handy for those that do not know what it is or do think it is a bell.  I now know who to come to if I have a question about a curious item.  The picture only shows the finial of the bell sticking up behind the seat.  I should have been more specific when it came to location of the bell since it cannot be seen.  It is behind the seat and in front of the air chamber.  This picture shows it a little better but not much.  If I could track down a picture of the original it would tell me if the bell belongs there and much more detail information needed.  Many La France pumpers I have seen had a gong on the front.

[STILL INTERESTED]

Thanks for the clarification.  In looking through my steamer Photos, most of the bells are mounted up high, usually on top of the pistons.  I have no idea what the fineal behind the seat is for.  Maybe Box 2565 (Steve) or some of the other guys might have an idea.  And also you might be very correct, and the is for the bell.  I also have seen gongs on the front of steamers.

[Chuck]

The finial is mounted on top of the bell.  All the pictures that I have seen shows the bell mounted on top of the cylinder heads as you mentioned.  I will keep an eye out for replies from those you have mentioned.  Thanks

[Chuck]

Still haven't found pictures of this full sized or where the original is located.  Any suggestions where to look?

[paulromano]

Hi Chuck:

You may try Ken Soderbeck of Jackson, MI, one of the most highly regarded restorers of Steam Fire Apparatus, for information on your model's configuration.  If you look at the Links page on the SPAAMFAA web site at www.spaamfaa.org, you will see his company listed there.

I have access to a large number of steam apparatus photographs and I will look at the laFrance file to try to find one similar to the model you picture.

As STILLINTERESTED mentioned earlier, most steam fire engine bells were mounted in a higher location than behind the seat.  The gong mounted on the floorboards was commonly a foot operated rotary gong manufactured by the New Departure Company. 

As a point of information, the eagle finial was not associated with laFrance until they started using the eagle on top of apparatus bells.  It was quite common for fire companies to order finials to show their company name or location i.e. Eagle Fire Company.  I know of a fire company in Salem, MA that had a nickel plated pigeon on the air chamber of their steam fire engine as they were located in an area known as "Pigeonville" or "Pigeon Cove". 

Good luck with your search.

[Chuck]

Paul thanks so much for pointing me to Ken and the info.  I was looking for someone that would be able to do a good job of pin striping and it looks like he might be it.  I will call him today.  I belong to the Scale Model Horse Drawn Vehicle forum and will be posting updates of the build of the model soon and will post a link to it here if anyone is interested.  Thanks again for the help it is much appreciated.

[Chuck]

I contacted Ken and he doesn't do work on small scale.  However he did send me two nice pictures that were close to what I am buikding. Again Thanks.