St. Louis

[jcast141]

Alright everyone, I guess I'll start this state off talking about the City of St. Louis' Fire Department. As many of you may know St. Louis uses the total quint concept, they have 30 First-line Engine Companies, 13 Medic Units I believe, 3 Front-line Hook and Ladder Companies, and 2 Rescue Squad Companies. Now, as I said all of their suppression division units are quints, Engines are all Smeal's with 75' ladders, 1250 gpm pumps, rear out and down stabilizers and foward down stabilizers. Their hosebed and ground ladders are completely protected from the elements by beign stored inside. Two Hook and Ladders have 125' aerials, and the third is a 100' Platform. First-in apparatus operates as an Engine, second as a Hook and Ladder, third as an Engine, fourth as a Hook and Ladder, and all after operate where needed. Haz-Mat company is located with Rescue Squad 2. If any of this is incorrect, I apologize, it has been a while since I was last up there. I was just wondering what everyone thought about operating like this? Also, if there is anyone out there from St. Louis, or any other department that operates the Total Quint Concept,  I'd like to get feedback from you, see how u like it, and if it works for you.

[dcmkris]

Can't help on St Louis, but Louisville, KY operates several Quints.  Biggest b**ch is that no one is ever happy with the Quint unit.  When they first arrive they need to decide are we an Engine Co or Ladder Co.  Of course this pisses off whoever is next on scene.  IE If they decide to be a Ladder Co. 1st the first responding Engine Co. gets upset and vice versa if they decide to be a Engine Co. 1st.
 
Recently they have started to implement 2 unit Quints which in all reality is 1 Engine and 1 Ladder/Quint.  So in my non expert evaluation Louisville has pretty much abandoned the Quint concept.  The proof to this is the recent order of a Seagrave Aerialscope platform (I was told to replace a quint unit).
 
Now with a all Quint dept, I guess Standard operating procedure helps eliminate the above problems.  Although that may or may not be true.  I would like to know how St Louis operates their quint system, as to what the first due is assigned to operate as.
 
I also have a department in MI that I'm working with to build a Quint.  There SOP is to use the ladder as emergency only item.  The unit will be assigned as an Engine Co.  and only be used as a Ladder CO. if the other ladder is Out Of Service or predisposed.
 
I think all in all that a Quint has it's advantages but the department must first decide how they will implement it's use.  Other wise they tend to get misused and even confuse FF's.
 
Kris

[daysleeper47]

Arlington used Quints for about 5 years and two months ago we got rid of both quints in service. One quint company became an engine company and the other a truck company.

[jcast141]

In St. Louis, 1st due operates as an Engine Co., 2nd due operates as a Truck Co., 3rd is an Engine, 4th a Truck, and all additional operate as needed and as directed by the IC. A Medic Unit is assigned upon 1st Alarm being dispatched, with another Medic Unit for each additional alarm. From what has been said the set-up works great when the Company Officer's do their assigned tasks, if they don't however then the Truck Work tends not to get done making suppression that much more difficult. Even if the Hook & Ladder Truck is 1st on-scene, it can operate as an Engine Co. If you watched the news over summer, on June 24th at the Praxair fire, Hook & Ladder 6 operated solely as an Engine Co. at one abandoned exposure that was across the street.

[mehlville1722]

Hey everyone Im from STL Metro. STLFD does run 30 75' Quints, but they run 4 H&L. H&L 2, 4, 6, 15. 4 and 15 are both 125', H&L 2 is a Smeal 100' Platform and H&L 6 is a 1996 or 97 E-one I believe 95' Platform. As for the Hazmat it runs out of station 28 with E-28 and H&L 15. The H&L that was working the house fire across from Praxair was H&L 2. As far as I know the Quint concept has worked very well in St. Louis with money being tight and not enough room in the stations to house a truck and engine.

[MATT3045]

I am pretty sure Richmond Virginia runs a total quint department, or they used to. From everything I have read it works really well for them. Here is a link to their website with all the info. Sorry for the delayed post, just found it.

http://www.richmondgov.com/departments/fire/operations/quint.aspx

[FirstAlarmPhotos]

Mehlville is right about everything said! I have also been to a few fires where H&L 4 was first due, laying out the first attack line AND Raising the stick for roof work! I made it to a reported fire tonight just before the H&L 4 made it 1st due. Even though they may be closer to the fire, our H&Ls are called out third due when the call comes over the radio. H&L 6 is a 1996 E-One Hurricane 105' Platform

[the nozzleman]

Here is an older profile of the City of St. Louis Fire Department that I seen years ago and recently found again. I have included the link to the page. I have also included a couple pictures of some of the older rigs. The first is Hook and Ladder 6 and Rescue 1

http://stlmetrofire.8m.com/stlfd.htm


ENGINE HOUSE 1: 2910 S. JEFFERSON at PESTALOZZI (House Faces West)


Pumper 1 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Rescue Squad 1 - 1989 Spartan Gladiator/1990 Saulsbury Heavy Rescue
Reserve Pumper 1 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Reserve Rescue Squad 1 - 1981 Mack CF/EFV HEavy Rescue (Former Squad 1)
Collapse Rescue Task Force (Manned by members of Pumper 1):
Shoring Unit 852 - 1977 International Cargostar/STLFD - flatbed w/ shoring timbers.
Cave In Unit 853 - 1974 International Loadstar/Causco/STLFD - Utility body w/ Pitman boom.
ENGINE HOUSE 2: 314 S. TUCKER at SPRUCE (House Faces West)

Pumper 2 - 2000 Spartan/Smeal (2000 GPM/400 G/12 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Hook & Ladder 6 - 1996 Emergency One Hurricane (1500 GPM/150 G/105' Rear Mount Aerial Platform)
Medic Unit 2
District 2 Battalion Chief - 802
802 A: Steve Kotraba
802 B: Gerald Diefenbach
802 C: Jay Jennings
Reserve Pumper 11 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Reserve Hook & Ladder 6 - 1981 Sutphen (1500 GPM/300 G/100 Mid Mount Aerial)
Heating/Cooling Bus 888 - 1977 Rohr Flexible Bus (Formerly Bi-State Transit)
ENGINE HOUSE 4: 4425 S. COMPTON at DAKOTA (House Faces East)

Pumper 4 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
District 4 Battalion Chief - 804
804 A: Jerry Eveland
804 B: Stanley Johnson
804 C: David Weman
ENGINE HOUSE 5: 2123 N. MARKET at RAUSCHENBACH (House Faces South)

Pumper 5 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Hook & Ladder 2 - 1988 Spartan Monarch/1989 LTI (1250 GPM/200 G/20 F/110'Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 5
District 1 Battalion Chief - 801
801 A: Kenny Smith
801 B: Douglas Cribbs
801 C: Michael Polihan
Reserve Pumper 5 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Reserve Snorkel 8 - 1977 Hendrickson/Pierce (? GPM/??? G/85' Snorkel)
ENGINE HOUSE 6: 5794 MANCHESTER at PIERCE (House Faces South)

Pumper 6 - 2000 Spartan/Smeal (2000 GPM/400 G/12 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 7: 2600 LaSALLE at JEFFERSON (House Faces East)

Pumper 7 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Reserve Pumper 7 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Deputy Chief - 810
Fire Investigation Unit - 821
Unit 9-1-1 Safehouse
Parade Engines:
1927 Ahrens-Fox Model P-S-2 #741
1951 Mack Model 95 - #95LS1250
ENGINE HOUSE 8: 1501 SALISBURY at BLAIR (House Faces East)

Pumper 8 - 2000 Spartan/Smeal (2000 GPM/400 G/12 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 9: 814 LaBEAUME at N. BROADWAY (House Faces North)

Pumper 9 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 9
Reserve Pumper 8 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Reserve Pumper 17 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 10: 4161 KENNERLY at WHITTIER (House Faces South)

Pumper 10 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 10
Reserve Pumper 10 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 11: 2224 S. 7th at S. BROADWAY (House Faces West)

Pumper 11 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Reserve Pumper 14 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Foam Truck 2 - 1977 Duplex/Howe/1992 STLFD (1250 GPM/500 G/250 F)
Marine Unit Task Force:
Marine Unit 2
Marine Unit 3
Marine Unit 4
ENGINE HOUSE 12: 5214 W. FLORISSANT at GERALDINE (House Faces North)

Pumper 12 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 12
Reserve Pumper 33 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 13: 1400 SHAWMUT at RIDGE (House Faces West)

Pumper 13 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 13
Reserve Pumper 13 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 14: 3523 MAGNOLIA east of GRAND (House Faces South)

Pumper 14 - 2000 Spartan/Smeal (2000 GPM/400 G/12 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 14
ENGINE HOUSE 17: 3238 MARTIN L. KING at LEONARD (House Faces North)

Pumper 17 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 19: 6624 MORGANFORD at HAVEN (House Faces West)

Pumper 19 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 20: 5600 PRESCOTT at N. BROADWAY (House Faces South)

Pumper 20 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
District 6 Battalion Chief - 806
806 A: Ed Libby
806 B: Chris Cross
806 C: Mark Bradshaw
Foam Truck 1 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G/250 F)
ENGINE HOUSE 22: 1229 McCAUSLAND S. of HWY 40 (House Faces East)

Pumper 22 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 22
Reserve Pumper 36 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 23: 6500 MICHIGAN at SOPER (House Faces West)

Pumper 23 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 23
Reserve Pumper 6 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 24: 5245 NATURAL BRIDGE E. of UNION (House Faces South)

Pumper 24 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 26: 4520 MARGARETTA at TAYLOR (House Faces North)

Pumper 26 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Reserve Pumper 26 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 27: 5435 PARTRIDGE at RIVERVIEW (House Faces South)

Pumper 27 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/LTI  (75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Reserve Pumper 20 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 28: 4810 ENRIGHT at BAYARD (House Faces North)

Pumper 28 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Hook & Ladder 15 - 1988 Spartan Monarch/1989 LTI (1250 GPM/200 G/20 F/110' Rear Mount Aerial)
Distrcit 5 Battalion Chief - 805
805 A: John Altmann
805 B: Dennis Jenkerson
805 C: Michael Arras
Haz-Mat Task Force
Decon 1 - 1981 Mack CF/EVF (Formerly Rescue Squad 2)
Decon 2 - 1977 Interneational Cargostar/Hewitt-Lucas/STLFD (Formerly Support Unit 1)
ENGINE HOUSE 29: 200 S. VANDEVENTER at FOREST PARK BLVD. (House Faces West)

Pumper 29 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Rescue Squad 2 - 1989 Spartan Gladiator/1990 Saulsbury Heavy Rescue
Reserve Pumper 29 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Foam Truck 4 - 1981 Ford C/Darley (ex Monsanto at St. Louis)
ENGINE HOUSE 30: 541 DeBALIVIERE S. of DELMAR (House Faces East)

Pumper 30 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 31: 4408 DONOVAN AT WATSON (House Faces West)

Pumper 31 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 31
Foam Truck 3 - 1977 Duplex/Howe/1992 STLFD (1250 GPM/500 G/250 F)
ENGINE HOUSE 32: 3500 S. GRAND at POTOMAC (House Faces West)

Pumper 32 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 32
Reserve Pumper 4 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
Reserve Pumper 32 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
ENGINE HOUSE 33: 8300 N. BROADWAY at McLAREN (House Faces West)

Pumper 33 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 33
ENGINE HOUSE 34: 8227 S. BROADWAY at HURCK (House Faces East)
(This is the oldest operating firehouse in the city - opened Nov. 12, 1895)


Pumper 34 - 1987 Pierce Arrow (1500 GPM/500 G/15 F/50' Rear Mount Aerial)
ENGINE HOUSE 35: 5450 ARSENAL at SUBLETTE (House Faces North)

Pumper 35 - 1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Medic Unit 35
Reserve Pumper 35 - 1977 Duplex/Howe (1250 GPM/500 G)
District 3 Battalion Chief - 803
803 A: Ralph Ortbals
803 B: William Schurwan
803 C: William Jones
ENGINE HOUSE 36: 5000 S. KINGSHIGHWAY at CHRISTY (House Faces North)

Pumper 36 -1987 KME/LTI (1500 GPM/400 G/15 F/75' Rear Mount Aerial)
Hook & Ladder 4 - 1988 Spartan Monarch/1989 LTI (1250 GPM/200 G/20 F/110'/110' Rear Mount Aerial)
REPAIR SHOP: 11TH at SPRUCE (Behind ENGINE HOUSE 2)

Command Post Unit 900 - 1985 Ford E/Advanced Vehicles (Former STL EMS Unit)
Service Unit 1 - Generator Unit
Service Unit 2 - 1990 Autocar/Vulcan heavy duty wrecker/recovery unit.
Service Unit 7 - 1988 Dodge/Monroe Custon Body - Tire Truck
Service Unit 8 - Equipment
Unit 905 - 1978 Ford L/Hackney - Air Unit (Former Grey Eagle beer truck)
Fuel Truck 1
Dump Truck - 1971 International Loadstar dump truck
Old Wrecker - 1948 International/Holmes wrecker/recovery unit (Still Used)
HEADQUARTERS: 1421 N. Jefferson

Fire Chief's Office
Fire Alarm Offices and Dispatch Center
Fire Training Academy - Deputy Chief William Erker - Chief Instructor
Training Tower
Collection of Fire Marks


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DISTRICT BREAKDOWN (By Engine Company)

District 1: P-5, 8, 9, 10, 17, H&L-2
District 2: P-1, 2, 7, 11, H&L-6, Squad-1
District 3: P-6, 22, 31, 35, 36, H&L-4
District 4: P-4, 14, 19, 23, 32, 34
District 5: P-13, 28, 29, 30, H&L-15, Squad-2
District 6: P-12, 20, 24, 26, 27, 33

[FAO25]

Question 1. What's a Quint? Originally a Quint meant it had five capabilities. a pump, hose, water tank, a FULL set of ground ladders and an aerial ladder. There were standards developed by the NBFU and later the AIA/ISO and NFPA 19/19XX. A review of these standards over time, would, I believe, show that changes were for convenience and not based on actual job requirements and regardless of operational safety. For example when I first became active in FF, Engine Co. water tanks were coming standard as 500 gal because the 150 -300 gals from the previous generation weren't enough. This grew to 750-1000 becoming standard. I worked with a guy who thought you should have a minimum of 1500 gal on an engine. And that was in an area protected by hydrants. Then the Quint comes out and all of a sudden 300-500 gal is OK. What gives? It's not just a pump but how much hose and water, how many ladders and what length. And how many people? In all of these categories the standards have been lowered to make the Quint work.
Question 2.Have you ever been on the pipe, making an initial attack with water flowing when someone uses the aerial device? With the quint I worked on, first you had to decide which operation you were going to do. If you didn't engage the pump before the aerial you had to shut down and disengage pump before you could use the aerial. Then the worst part was if you used the aerial it robbed power from the pump and you lost water pressure!
Question 3. How do we define "works pretty well"? What criteria, if we hold it to the block of origin is that "pretty well"?           

[Engine33Truck]

Does anyone know what the "official" designation of Hook & Ladder 105 is?  I went to St. Louis the first week of the month (I promise I'll post photos soon, the 2's photos aren't that great because they didn't want to pull the trucks out to post them in rush hour traffic but the 1's were wonderful).  Well, I got photos of the 2's after they came back from a call and as I was getting photos of H&L 105, they posed the truck (without me asking) and blocked traffic and my camera went dead before I got to get posed photos.  Sheepishly and highly embarassed, I apologized.  I have an interesting and a tad hilarious story of my trip from the City Museum where my group was to StLFD HQ, but I'll save it for when I post the pics.   The story might remind some of the places they live in, LOL.

[GTW6401]

St. Louis recently purchased 9 new Spartan/Smeal pumpers, which has changed how everything is classified.  75 Foot Quints are now Trucks, and 100 Footer or Higher - H&L's.   

They also placed a Hook and Ladder in each of the 6 districts, with only 4 being in place since the total quint concept was started back in 1987.   

H&L 1 - Station 5, was H&L 2.
H&L 2 - Station 6, was H&L 6.
H&L 3 - Assigned to District 3, Don't have exact station assignment.
H&L 4 - Assignment unchanged, remained at Station 36.
H&L 5 - Station 28, was H&L 15.
H&L 6 - Station 12,  Engine 12 now out of service.

[START WATER]

 A QUINT CAN  BE USED   VERY WELL ON THE AVERAGE  HOIUSE FIRE  BUT -----------YOU NEED  PEOPLE   AND ALSO TAKE HAVE  THE JUNK OFF THET YOU DON 'REALLY NEED , THERE IS NO SENSE  TO BE OVER WEIGHT AND WEAR DOWN THE BREAKS AND MAKE THE ENGINE WORK WITH A STRAIN

MAN POWEER  IS THE NAME OF THE GAME AND WHEN THE MANPOWER IS LOW SO ,IS THE WORK A QUINT CAN DO

PHILLY HAS A QUINT  THAT IS SO MOVER LOADED  ITS A SHAME

ALL  ENGINE    LADDER AND RESCUE  EQUIPMENT    THE JAWS  , SHORING ETC     IT IOS SO OVER LOADED ITS A SHAME

IT RUNS WITH OFFICER AND 5 FF.S  , THEY STLL PER FORM ENG AND LADER OPS .    ITS HARD  TWO ON THE  LINE AND  TWO ON NTHE LADDERS  ,DRIVER THROWS THE STICK

I FEEL ITS DANGEROUS  . MY FRINED  IS A VOL CHOIEF WITH A 756 FT QUINT THEY COULDNOT REACH FOR  ROOFS IN A ROW AND SOLDMIT AND BROUGHT A 100 FT LADDER

THEY MAKE  ENGS AND LADDERSB FOR A REASON

[GRide]

The department I was on had one quint with a 55' aerial device.  IMO it was worthless.  The truck itself was longer than a standard engine so it was tough to get in tight places, and the aerial was too short to do any good anywhere.  75' would have helped some places, but not others.  It was a real pain to lay supply line with, and even worse to reload.  It carried engine and truck gear, but not the full compliment of either and only had engine company ground ladders.  The appratus itself could handle engine work, but was in no way a replacement for a truck company.  It would up as a reserve and was later sold.

As long as everybody is trained to do it, who does what work isn't an issue.  If you want a pump on a 100' aerial or platform, that's fine although in my experience the pump won't get used much, but the quints with 75' or less aerial are jacks of all trades and masters of none.

[Engine33Truck]

City of St. Louis
Engine Co. 1
2011 Spartan/Smeal
2250/500/30F
J. H. Bennett photo

[johnmocha]

That's a very sharp looking piece of apparatus.  Any reason why they are going with a 2250gpm pump?  Seems like overkill but I don't have insight into their particular fireloads.